My 1st PSG Build, Making progress now.

[Andy DePaule]

My 1st PSG Build, Making progress again now.
I had posted on this project I'd started almost 3 years ago on another thread before Bob so kindly made the builders page.
For those interested, the older link...
viewtopic.php?t=347590&highlight=
Usually I live in Saigon. My wife and I returned to Oregon & Texas for a month in March of 2020.
Thats when the Covid hit and Viet Nam closed off all immigration status and we got stuck in Oregon for almost two years.
Six or eight months ago I thought we'd never get back and started setting up a nice workshop in Springfield, Oregon. Spent a small fortune on tools, etc...
Now we'll stay in Oregon for another two years because I want to use my new tools & workshop and my wife is making good money working in the US.

I came back to Saigon to take care of unfinished business including bringing some of my luthier tools and instruments in progress back to Oregon.
Decided to go ahead and have this 1st PSG Build soundboard finished here where the cost is less than even the cost a can of lacquer stateside.
Picked it up this morning and they did a very nice job in putting a mirror like finish on it for me. Attached are some iPhone photos so you can see how it's coming along.

This is how the floating soundboard now looks inside the welded aluminum frame:


The finish work was absolutely perfect. This top is a 1/8" Curly Koa Veneer over a 5/8" Western Red Cedar core (Vertical Grain).
The neck will be suspended between the Nut block and the changer block to leave the soundboard as free as possible. For the good tone and sustain I hope to get.

These two photos give an idea of the eventual layout, though this fretboard is not the right one. It will have a short 21.5" scale wide board because I will use a 10 string E9/A6th combination tuning. I'll want the feel of a non-pedal neck with wider string spacing for easy slants.
The steel will be 9.5" wide X 31.5" long.



The steel is not an S-10 or a SD-10, but will be more like a 1&3/4 width body.
The changer will be 3 up and 3 down.

The soundboard will be attached from the underside using these 4 or 6 threaded inserts that will not be seen except from the underside*. I am in hope that 2 on each end will be enough to hold it and keep it flat.
It does have a slight warp from the laminated Koa and Cedar. I'll put in all 6 threaded inserts, but hope that just 4 bolts will do the job. If not, I'll add the center bolts.
*I'm guessing most of you will know about threaded inserts? For any who don't know they have wood threads on the outside and 1/4" X 20 machine threads inside for the bolts.
Being in the inlay business I was able to pick out some very nice Blue Paua Abalone 1/8" strips all well matched to one another for the trim.

I've attached leather strips above and below the soundboard mounting bracket.
The idea here is to isolate the soundboard from the mechanical noises generated by the pedals, knee levers and all that other stuff under the steel that makes unwanted noises.
The mounting holes are 5cm (About 2") apart.

Last are a couple of photos of the steel body with an acoustic guitar I built for myself 23 years ago. Only reason for these two pictures is to brag on one of my favorite playing guitars and also to get a sense of the steel's size.
Not a large pedal steel. It will have 4 or 5 knee levers and 5 or 6 pedals. I've not yet decided on the final setup.

[Barry Coker]

Beautiful Andy is the aluminum frame going to be polished, laminated or mabe powdercoated?

Barry

[Andy DePaule]

Thanks Barry,
Planning to sand, buff and polish it to the best possible silver mirror like finish possible.
First I need to fill in some spots in the corner welds so the round over will look good and still be strong too.
I did that a while back, but was a little too shy with the welder and didn't get as much weld into the needed areas as I intended. I'm far from being a pro welder.

One of my sons did send me a wire welder as a gift and there is some kind of wire they sell that will weld aluminum. A lot of work still ahead.
Best wishes,
Andy

[Barry Coker]

Your wire works best if it matches the Aluminum your welding to 6061 7075 whatever the base metal is and 100% argon gas Aluminum is a pain to weld if you don't to it all the time. Practice on some scrap before jumping in too deep.

Good Luck
Barry

[Tim Toberer]

Lovely project you have going Andy. Keep up the good work! It sounds like your life has been quite an adventure. Keep us posted on your progress.

I'm curious about your E9/A6 tuning? Is this something you've developed over the years? Building your own guitar allows you the luxury of customizing the instrument to your own specific tuning.

[Andy DePaule]

Lovely project you have going Andy. Keep up the good work! It sounds like your life has been quite and adventure. Keep us posted on your progress.

I'm curious about your E9/A6 tuning? Is this something you've developed over the years? Building your own guitar allows you the luxury of customizing the instrument to your own specific tuning.

Hi Tim,
I've had variations of this tuning for years. Usually close to the standard E9th but with the 2nd and 9th strings tuned to C# and raised by knee lever.
About three years ago I started to have my "A" pedal raise the #5 string to C# as is standard, but lower the 10th string to A so I get an A6th tuning on all 10 strings.
With that all the knees that work well on E9th also do useful things in the pedals down A6th.

With this steel I have yet to decide if I'll move the 2nd String, C# over between the E and the B to make it a true A6th.
Attached are two possibilities. One with 6 pedals and 5 knee levers and the other a more simple version with 5 & 4 similar to what I've had for a long time. I'll decide later in the process.

On both tunings the RKL gives all those E9th runs that go up and down from the Low E to the high G# while wacking up and down on the "AB" pedals.
Those are not possible on other 10 string combination tunings I've seen.
This will be the first steel that I'll have that knee lever change on.
Best wishes,
Andy


Or perhaps one of these two tuning copedents?
As you can see I really have not yet decided.
The two 1/4" X 2" aluminum strips that will be drilled with holes for the cross shafts will be pre drilled for 6 pedals and 5 knee levers just in case I change my mind later.



I'm also toying with the idea of a built in E-Bow between the fretboard end and the pickup under the strings.
It would be brought up to rest under the high B string and activated (Turned on) by a wrist lever on the right side.
That idea being because when we use the E-Bow we are just holding the device with our right hand and not picking.

[Andy DePaule]

Your wire works best if it matches the Aluminum your welding to 6061 7075 whatever the base metal is and 100% argon gas Aluminum is a pain to weld if you don't to it all the time. Practice on some scrap before jumping in too deep.

Good Luck
Barry

When I welded the frame 3 years ago I had the use of a good argon gas welder that my friend Denny, a luthier in Eugene had. Since then Denny passed away of a massive heart attack a year and a half ago. Was a very sad thing since he was only 56 years old.
I no longer have access to his garage workshop where we both built guitars for over 25 years. We also worked at the same place together for 4 years before I started the pre-cut inlay business.
I really don't do much welding so spending that kind of money makes no sense for me right now.
The frame is made of 1/8th inch 6061 aluminum. I know the wire may not be a perfect color match, but expect it to be close enough to be hard to notice???
Thanks for the good advice. I will do some tests on scraps of 6061 first to be sure.
Best wishes,
Andy

[Andy DePaule]

An anniversary here in Saigon today...
Today is April 30th and that marks 47 years since our shameful pullout in 1975 after ten years of another stupid war. A war that cost the lives of 58,000 Americans and well over a million Vietnamese.
I have no idea how many were permanently injured on all sides, but it was far too many.
I don't see this in political terms since both parties were responsible for that madness.

Anyway, today is now a big holiday here with flags flying on every street and ally and tonight there are fireworks going off in the sky above the city.

I hold no resentment for anyone here and over the past twenty-two years have become friends with quite a few Vietnamese veterans from all sides.
We are treated very well here these days and for those who did serve here and never returned they would not recognize this country with all the changes.
Now there are KFC's everywhere as well as Burger Kings, McDonalds and all that stuff to make them fat and less healthy like us.
Harley, Indian and Japanese Crotch Rocket motorcycles for the rich kids. Rolls Royce, Bentley and Mercedes cars for their well off parents.
Most average Vietnamese live with less fancy wheels, but life and the economy here has improved a lot for most people during the 23 years since I first returned.

My house here in Saigon is just 2 blocks from the Presidential Palace where the war ended with a North Vietnamese tank crashing through the gates of the palace in the early morning and some of the tankers running up to the 3rd floor balcony and waving the red flag with the gold star. The tank is still parked on the lawn in front of the palace.
Where our 7 story embassy once stood is now a new large one level American consulate.
One block from my Saigon house is the war museum with a Huey Helicopter in front.

My wife's house is 45 miles North East of Saigon in Tay Ninh on the Cambodian boarder and the end of the Ho Chi Minh trail. It is only about 4 kilometers from our old fire base camp where I spent some horrid nights dodging mortar and rocket fire on a regular basis.
I'd have never guessed that 53 years later I'd have a nice country home there.
The killing fields of Cambodia have been replaced with casinos right across the boarder because gambling is not legal in Viet Nam though it would be hard to tell by all the gambling going on there.

As the old Bob Wills song goes, Time Changes Everything.
I always loved the country and people. It's so much nicer now that they are not shooting at us any more.
Actually the relationship between the US and VN is very good now.

To all the forum members who did serve here, you should know that in one way we did win. That is now so many people here want to be like Americans and they love country music.

[Tim Toberer]

I've had variations of this tuning for years.

Yah I'm fairly new to steel guitar and I'm starting to realize most steelers are never completely happy with their tunings. I guess that's what makes steel so unique. I look forward to seeing this completed!

[Andy DePaule]

I've had variations of this tuning for years.

Yah I'm fairly new to steel guitar and I'm starting to realize most steelers are never completely happy with their tunings. I guess that's what makes steel so unique. I look forward to seeing this completed!

Right, The funny thing is I can think of lots of kool changes that all offer some neat licks, chords and runs, but whenever I go out to play I seem to stay on just the AB pedals and 3 or 4 knee levers at least 90% of the time.
Truth is I'd probably be quite happy with just 2 pedals and 4 knee levers.
I would get so confused if I had 6 or more levers and always wonder how some steelers can deal with so many.
Example is that three of my steels have a vertical knee lever to lower the B's to Bb and though I know several ways to use those changes, I almost never do use it.

[Mark McCornack]

Hi Andy,
Wow! That is going to be a beauty! Not surprising, from your other work I've seen. I'm curious, what are you going to do for the changer? Are you going to machine your own parts or buy a changer from someone? All-Pull? Splits? I think that aspect of the work would be most intimidating. Like you, I've built a few archtop guitars and a few banjos, but tackling a psg mechanism seems pretty daunting.
Please keep us all posted with this! I'd love to see the progression.
Cheers,
Mark
(p.s. Thanks again for your past help on my Bud crossover questions. I got it all squared away)

[Andy DePaule]

Hi Andy,
Wow! That is going to be a beauty! Not surprising, from your other work I've seen. I'm curious, what are you going to do for the changer? Are you going to machine your own parts or buy a changer from someone? All-Pull? Splits? I think that aspect of the work would be most intimidating. Like you, I've built a few archtop guitars and a few banjos, but tackling a psg mechanism seems pretty daunting.
Please keep us all posted with this! I'd love to see the progression.
Cheers,
Mark
(p.s. Thanks again for your past help on my Bud crossover questions. I got it all squared away)

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the nice comments. The changer I plan to use is an All Pull 3 Up & 3 Down.
Not sure of the brand, but think it may be Carter or MSA?

Maybe someone on this thread will know where it was made.
This drawing looks like the one I'm planning to use but does not have the bearing. Photos of the actual Changer attached. Hope someone will chime in on what it was made for?





I also have these changer fingers I bought from Jim Flynn a while ago as well as enough parts to make a couple more if I get a riveter.


I prefer this kind of changer over the kind with the fingers stuck in a machined block. With these fingers I can add washers to widen the string spacing.
I need that because of my bad right hand that shakes badly and with too tight a string spacing I find it hard to pick the right strings.
Found and ordered some 1mm thin washers on Amazon that I can add as needed between the fingers.
The ID of the washers is 0.047" (12mm) so I'll need to ream them out to the 1/2" size of the axel and opening on the fingers.

As for Splits, I have them on my Custom Mullen and never use them. Doubt I'll want to put them on this steel.
I just never seem to use some of the things available on the tunings.
Love to see you post some photos of your archtop guitars. Those are my favorite guitars to make. However most I've built were flat tops because they are easy to sell and cost less in work. materials and money to make.
Best wishes,
Andy

[Mark McCornack]

Hi Andy,
Maybe Jim Palenscar could answer your questions regarding the lineage of that changer. A lot of stuff has passed under his purview over the years.
I just posted some pictures of an archtop I built and a banjo peghead from a banjo I built a few years back. I wasn't sure where would be an appropriate place to post them on the forum as neither one is steel guitar related, so I put them in the technical support "Testing" section under "a couple of mark's instruments". Couldn't figure out how to send pictures to you directly through pm or email on the forum.
Mark

[Tony Glassman]

Magnifique !

[Andy DePaule]

Hi Andy,
Maybe Jim Palenscar could answer your questions regarding the lineage of that changer. A lot of stuff has passed under his purview over the years.
I just posted some pictures of an archtop I built and a banjo peghead from a banjo I built a few years back. I wasn't sure where would be an appropriate place to post them on the forum as neither one is steel guitar related, so I put them in the technical support "Testing" section under "a couple of mark's instruments". Couldn't figure out how to send pictures to you directly through pm or email on the forum.
Mark

Thanks for that Mark,
I found your guitar post quickly searching under your name for recent posts.
viewtopic.php?t=380808&highlight=

I really love that green to gold sunburst and the guitar looks great.
The banjo peghead is also really nice and lets not forget the nice old Sho~Bud crossover. Looks a lot like my second pedal steel. Can't remember why I sold it or who I sold it to? It might be the reason for my bad back now!

Yes maybe Jim will chime in. He has helped me a few times in the past. Great guy to deal with.

[Andy DePaule]

Magnifique !

Thanks Tony,
I heard you have retired now.
Love to get together again if I get down your way to Roseburg.
With the nice new better equipped VA clinic in Eugene I hardly ever need to go down there any more.
Maybe I'll see you at the Portland Jam coming up on the 22nd of May?
Best wishes,
Andy

[Andy DePaule]

I've got the Neck & Inlaid Fretboard Combo almost done now.
I still need to cut a little relief under the bottom of the neck so only the ends and a bit in the center will make contact with the soundboard. Will do that when I'm back in Oregon with better equipment to work on it.

The neck is Quilted Maple with a little burl in it at the 14th fret.
Frets are White Muscle shell and the trim around the Frets and the Position Dots are New Zealand Paua Abalone Pearl.
A few iPhone photos so you can see how nice it is coming out from various angles.







Starting to take shape and I'm beginning to get hot to be done and see how it will play?
Still need to decide if the 5" X 6" Changer/Pickup Block will be Quilted Maple, Flamed Koa or Aluminum? Will depend on if I can find suitable well matching woods or not.

[Barry Coker]

Beautiful Andy.

[Ross Shafer]

quilted maple moves me!

[Mark McCornack]

Hi Andy,
I love it! That piece of quilted bigleaf is awesome! Lots of figure on the quarter too. I've tried some things where the slab face has tons of figure, but the quarter sawn face is flat and dull. This piece is pretty on top AND on the sides. Like Ross, I'm nuts about nice quilted maple.
That picture of the guitar I posted a couple of days ago was my third archtop. Here's my first one. I built this one in the mid 90's. In retrospect, slabcut quilted maple was really not the best choice for the neck structurally, but I've had no problems, and it came out pretty.



I also have been using Port Orford Cedar (that's where I was born) for tops on guitars and have had great luck with it. Structurally and tonaly great stuff. Light and strong. Maybe good for steel guitars as well? It smells great too. As an Oregonian, maybe you know about Port Orford Cedar (or at least Port Orford). Myrtle Wood from those parts might be pretty nice on a steel too!

I'm looking forward to seeing your continued progress on this steel. So far, it's just over the top!
Mark

[Andy DePaule]

quilted maple moves me!

Thanks Ross,
My planning to cut away a little material under the fretboard and leaving just a little at the ends and center of the neck came from you because I think you are right about it.
Same with the soundboard being held down only on 4 corners though P.A. Bigsby also did that on his console steel guitars.

I also love Quilted Maple even though it's flat grain and not really suitable for acoustic guitars.
My latest acoustic build, yet to get finished has Quilted arched back and sides.
It's a flat top with spruce. I've braced the sides to help keep them straight where they need to be.
Best wishes,
Andy

[Mark McCornack]

Agreed Andy. For all its beauty, quilted maple does have its shortcomings. Bending quilted sides can be a real bear without the wood "de-quilting" on you. Yikes! Especially in those tight radius cutaway sections!

I am curious about your comment regarding suspension of the soundboard on four points in the corners. I'm supposing this is for tonal reasons, but what is the mechanism here? The whole subject of creating favorable tone (and what that really means) is something I have no understanding of at all with the steel. I don't know if this has been covered anywhere on the forum, but I'd like to learn more on this subject.

[Andy DePaule]

Agreed Andy. For all its beauty, quilted maple does have its shortcomings. Bending quilted sides can be a real bear without the wood "de-quilting" on you. Yikes! Especially in those tight radius cutaway sections!

I am curious about your comment regarding suspension of the soundboard on four points in the corners. I'm supposing this is for tonal reasons, but what is the mechanism here? The whole subject of creating favorable tone (and what that really means) is something I have no understanding of at all with the steel. I don't know if this has been covered anywhere on the forum, but I'd like to learn more on this subject.

This was my first Archtop guitar. Started the build in 1978. A divorce got in the way and I finished it about 1981 or so.
Really had no idea how it should be done so used scraps of cedar for the top and left over walnut & mahogany for the body in case it didn't turn out well.
The finish was hand rubbed out sunburst.
Three piece back because the scraps were not wide enough for a 17" guitar.




Actually it worked out well. Later I made it into a cutaway.

This is the Quilted Maple & Spruce guitar I'm making for myself now.
It has an arched back and flat top. Simple inlays.
There is one spot in the side where the side dips in just a tad even after I reached inside and braced it as best as I could.
It was built without a mould freehand.
The neck is east coast Birdseye Maple, Very stable material.






I really need to get back to finish this. Was waiting for warmer weather to add a couple more coats of lacquer. Been way too long in the works.

[Mark McCornack]

Nice !

[Tony Oresteen]

I've got the Neck & Inlaid Fretboard Combo almost done now.
I still need to cut a little relief under the bottom of the neck so only the ends and a bit in the center will make contact with the soundboard. Will do that when I'm back in Oregon with better equipment to work on it.

The neck is Quilted Maple with a little burl in it at the 14th fret.
Frets are White Muscle shell and the trim around the Frets and the Position Dots are New Zealand Paua Abalone.
A few iPhone photos so you can see how nice it is coming out from various angles.







Starting to take shape and I'm beginning to get hot to be done and see how it will play?
Still need to decide if the 5" X 6" Changer Block will be Quilted Maple, Flamed Koa or Aluminum? Will depend on if I can find suitable well matching woods or not.

Just wow Andy!!!!!!!!

That is going to be one fantastic guitar! Keep us posted on your progress.