Amp headroom vs overdrive?

[Nico Hillary]

Hi all, happy Thanksgiving, I hope you're having a great weekend with your loved ones.

I have a question about amps, tone, and clean versus slight overdrive.

Thanks to Jeff Newman's excellent videos, as well as some excellent advice right here on SGF, at long last I'm getting some pleasing sounds from my pedal steel thru a Bandit 112 transtube. But I'm still not quite there yet.

So, my question is really a 2-parter... I read a lot about amp 'headroom'. I always understood this to mean the amp stays clean right up to the stratosphere. Did I understand that right?

...However, listening to recordings, teaching videos, etc. I noticed there's a kind of "squish" to some pro's tone. I say squish, cos it's not mush, more like mush's little brother. Kind of like the amp or speaker is just breaking up ever so slightly. I always thought that brittle, glassy sound of steel was because the amp was so clean, but now I'm wondering if it is not quite so squeaky clean after all.

So, leaving aside "if it sounds good to you it's a good sound", is a teeny weeny bit of subtle natural overdrive a key part of the sound?

As always, thanks for your input!

[Bob Hoffnar]

Yes ! You have noticed that the truly great classic tones for the pedal steel that happened in the golden period in the 60’s are actually not clean. Even in more recent times the bulk of fantastic recorded pedalsteel have used some level of tube amplification beginning with Paul Franklin’s work with dire straights. Even that was a long time ago !

So trust your ears. You got it right.

[David Wren]

Great ears. You're on the right track. Do remember there is a difference between live performances, and recording

I think you will find many here do what I do.... strife for the cleanest sound (with head room for the VP) as possible... then using moderate settings on "mild" overdrive/distortion device (Brad Sarno's Earth Drive I found to work the best with modern steel pickups).... you can always dial in the amount of "drive" sound you wish.

With that said, also many on the forum will advise use of a tube amp,,,, so as you can see, experimentation may be the key for the sound you are looking for.

As for myself, when I record, I use very little effects, as opposed to play large live venues.

Best of luck.

[David Higginbotham]

That area where you're hearing a compressed sound but not quite overdriven sound is very musical. For me...it's the sound that I consider slightly "grainy" for lack of a better description but also smooth as glass at the same time. An example of this would be the guitar on "Main Street" by Bob Seger. That player had one of the best tones I've ever heard. He takes a different route on his lead ride where it goes into some overdrive but the rest of it is mesmerizing. That same approach and sound applied to steel guitar is what I've heard on some of the early steel players of the 60's and 70's like Tom Brumley on "Together Again and "Garden Party." Another example would be the steel on John Anderson's "Black sheep of the Family" even tho it's short fills. The tone and perfection adds so much to that song! These are for reference only because so many factors are included with the brand of steel, pickups, amps, speakers, effects, the players style and of course the magic of studio engineering and mixing.

I wish there was a way to capture the tone of the lead guitar on "Main Street" and apply that to pedal steel...I'd definitely be in tone heaven!

Here's an old post discussing much on the subject with many comments from some of our best experts!

Dave

viewtopic.php?t=64193&hilit=Compressed+ ... ry+musical

[David Wren]

Just finished reading the 4 pages of David's link to this question, in 2005... simple amazing.

I think it has been years since I have seen such qualified players comment on a subject. Thanks David!

[David Wren]

BTW, this is still an unanswered question, as can be seen by the 2005 responses. FWIW, I just ordered a new Milkman 300 watt "Half and Half" with a tube preamp, an SS power amp.... can't wait to try it out

Also, I own a P2P "Bad Dawg" hand wired tube amp... and it sounds killer... but I still take my Quilter with the TT 15 to gigs

[David Wren]

To show there is a giant difference in recording equipment and doing large venues, here is a link to a session I did a couple of years ago. The amp is simply an older Fender Mustang I (20 SS watts), but I installed an 8" Eminence "blues" speaker... and ported the closed cab with two 3" ports. Weighs about 12 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX_0mQt ... Xk&index=5

Made this amp simply for home practice, but it seems to be a hit with many of the engineers on sessions, so I use it

Could I use this on a live gig, nope!
(No, this doesn't remotely sound like Brumley, Green or Emmons... but it works for the level of recording I'm asked to do these days.)

[Bob Sykes]

I used to use a pair of Bandit 112s for steel and 6 string (for stereo FX) often. They sound good and have the attributes much as the previous posts have described. The PV manual says:

"Congratulations on your purchase of the all new Bandit@ 112 TransTubeTM Series. This amp represents years of research on vacuum tube emulation, resulting in a totally new Bandit. The preamp has been redesigned, using patent-applied for technology that redefines tubelike distortion and harmonic generation in
solid-state amps. The new TTM Dynamics circuitry, also awaiting several patents, creates the long sought for tube power compression phenomenon. This, in combination with resonance and presence circuitry, yields the closest tube amp simulation to date. This compression effect is increased by turning the T. Dynamics control down, which lowers the power level the amp puts out."

The T. Dynamics control and input drive level really do have a subtle but significant effect. I'm using old BF amps mostly now because I need 2 channels with their own volume and EQ. I am curious how the Bandit 112 compares with Nashville 112. I know the amps are voiced differently and have different watts/speaker/controls. I suspect pedal steel players would have little use for the Bandit's "thrash" button.

[Brett Lanier]

I wish there was a way to capture the tone of the lead guitar on "Main Street" and apply that to pedal steel.

That sounds to me like humbuckers or a P90 into a fuzz, with the volume on the guitar rolled back (which makes it brighter) OR overdriving the console - direct or with a mic. Either way, sounds like solid state transistor clipping, but the good kind.